casnu la .uikipedi'as.:Creating Lojban articles

about the 3rd provision

why does only these certain proper nouns' spelling need retained? what about capitalization? this seems to lead to weird things like articles being named {任天堂}, instead of just [nintendous}. mi'e bobas 02:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I see no problem here. There are two names made by the creators: 任天堂 (for Japan) and Nintendo (for the outside world). Since the first is the original, it must be the title of the article, and the second must be redirected there. You suggest "nintendous". But what is that "u"? For example, Russians (as many other people) don't spell any {u}s in that word, they just say {nintendo}. So if you want to keep Lojban culturally neutral, you better stay away from spelling biases. And besides, why do you call "weird" writing the name of Nintendo in the way its creators do? Inego 03:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Why lojbanizing people and geographic names and not names of products? For the same reason why a man's name or a geographic name cannot be trademarked or owned by anyone. Inego 03:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

i had a 'u' in the name because that's how it's written/pronounced in japanese: 'nintendou'. using {任天堂} isn't weird to me, but it probably is to people who don't know the foreign script it's in, much less chinese characters. so is capitalization necessary? and since i don't see trademarks as legitimate, i don't know what reason you're talking about; it just seems arbitrary to me. mi'e bobas 18:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I put a question about this up on Meta, but there haven't been any responses. This is really Wikimedia's problem, if there is one, and so I think we should wait for them to tell us what not to do, rather than just guessing that there is a problem.—sen ^{(ko tavla)} 06:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

so this is just a trademark issue? in that case forget it; i'm going with sen and strongly suggest that #3 be removed for now. mi'e bobas 07:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

In this case, you are suggested to suggest a way by which users can find the corresponding lojbanized names of the articles they search. And believe me, that will be hard to do (remeber your monstrous lojbanization of Heroes of Might and Magic?) - Inego 01:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

how about being redirected? mi'e bobas 02:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

It's true that this is problematic, but seems to me that it just puts trademarked names in the same position as any other proper noun. How are readers supposed to know that the article on Julius Caesar will be located at iulis.kaisar or that the article on Italy will be located at gugdrxitali? I suppose that, to be totally correct, any new word used here on jbo.wikipedia, even cmevla, should be entered on Jbovlaste first and approved. Then, readers could find the appropriate article by looking it up in Jbovlaste.—sen ^{(ko tavla)} 23:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

i don't think jbovlaste is big enough to have entries all the obscure names whose referants are notable. even if it becomes such by the time lojban wikipedia is big enough to cover most of those referants, it will still discourage writing about them. mi'e bobas 01:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I agree that this plan is somewhat impractical because it will discourage writing, but I don't think there's any size limit to Jbovlaste.—sen ^{(ko tavla)} 03:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

i was refering mainly to labor restrictions. mi'e bobas 07:05, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we should need to enter a word in jbovlaste before using it here. You might have invented a lujvo and know what x1 and x2 are, which are enough to use it in some sentences, but not the rest of the places, which you need to know to enter it in jbovlaste. Or it could be a compound cmene, such as {kot.diVUAR.} or {.iulius.kaisar.}, which can't be entered in jbovlaste. The spelling of fu'ivla and cmevla isn't standardized; we have variants such as trixexu and trixexo. Also, jbovlaste isn't a wiki; you can't edit someone else's definition. -Pier 00:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

#3

Since we have never gotten confirmation that there is a real problem here, and conversation on the subject no longer seems active, I'm going to go ahead and remove the current point #3 "Names of non-Lojban software products, companies, books, films etc. must remain original (so {nintendous} would be {任天堂}, not {Nintendo}) unless they, including their names, have been translated to Lojban. So: {Microsoft}, {Windows}, {The Thirteenth Warrior}, {Heroes of Might and Magic}, {Hasbro} and so on." from this page.—sen ^{(ko tavla)} 21:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I've reversed my position on #3. I think names should remain unchanged for the sake of orthographical consistency. Unless someone has a problem with it, I'm restoring the rule, and I think it should be expanded to all names that can't be completely lojbanised. mi'e bob. 12:47, 12 la daumast. 2008 (UTC)